Oil
Pans; oil pan gaskets; oil pan threads, oil capacity; dipsticks; oil pickups
©
Copyright, 2011, R. Fleischer
pangasket.htm
50C
Trick/hint: Using a small
10 mm box end wrench or a SMALL square drive wrench with a 10 mm
socket, try tightening the 14 pan bolts, but not over 75 INCH-ounces.
If any of the bolts have bad threads, note which ones, mark the
case, so you can fix them after the pan is off.
(You don't want to replace the pan gasket and find you have bad
threads at any of the 14 threaded holes)
| This first section is a copy, edited, of a short
thread on the Airheads LIST. Please read this
section, and then read the rest of the article.
"I replaced the leaky oil pan gasket on my 1973 r75/5
with a high quality silicone gasket. I had a terrible
time getting the original gasket off (stuck on the
oil pan side). After getting the original gasket off
I lightly sanded the oil pan with 400 grit sandpaper,
cleaned surfaces, and installed. Well I still seem to
have a leak (perhaps even slightly worse). I plan on
taking the oil pan back off after I try to find the
exact location of the leak with talc. I will get a
better torque wrench and follow guide lines (6
ft-lbs) I found on other threads.
My question: Are there any other tricks to avoid leaks?
Perhaps something applied to the gasket besides
adhesive?"
Snowbum replied:
"This is a generic reply, for MY method of dealing
with pan gaskets.
BEFORE removing the old gasket, I use my personal
hand-feel on the 10 mm bolts (you can use a torque
wrench) to identify any threads that are being pulled
out. Finding out about a pulled thread is best now,
and not after you start torquing up the new gasket.
I never EVER use silicone pan gaskets....nor ANY type
of sealant, silicone or otherwise, on the pan gasket
surfaces (that means engine and pan metal surfaces).
I make sure the pan is flat, nick-free, and install a
STOCK gasket, on very well cleaned surfaces (some
gasket remover products work pretty well, if you are
leery (and I suggest you be VERY careful anyway) of
using sharp tools in cleaning off any old gasket and
sealant residues.
Any sanding of pan surfaces MUST be done on a FLAT
surface, such as an old piece of window glass or a
real Surface Plate. I use even pressure, and
figure-eights, varying my hand position, etc. Don't
do sanding unless there is a problem! You can use a
lamp or flashlight at the pan-to-flatplate surface to
see any problems...or, as I do, with a very thin
feeler gauge (.002" happens to be the one I use).
After the pan is known to be flat and without serious
nicks (DO NOT nick with your scraping tools!), and ALL old gasket crap is removed from engine and pan surfaces, and
the surfaces cleaned (I use ACETONE on a rag), I
install conventionally, and I torque very evenly, in
a cross-pattern (very important), and for the first
go-around, I use a quite low torque. I hold the pan and gasket to the
engine, then finger-in all
the bolts first.
Then, I use a very small wrench. If you do not
have a good feel for torque, use a good INCH-pound or
similar torque wrench, after you get all the bolts
evenly and LIGHTLY tightened.
Always do any
tightening in a cross-pattern...this is just plain
good practice, and is IMPORTANT
at the pan. It is very important to torque
evenly, in a cross-pattern, and to do this in STAGES.
That means any one amount of torque is done in a
cross-pattern until all bolts are at that torque
level, then increase the torque a bit, until all are
at that next level.
The idea is to NOT 'bunch up' that gasket. Of
course, the idea is also not to over-torque the bolts
and pull threads out of the engine.
Do NOT!! use a big torque wrench like we use for
swing arm locknuts or for the cylinder stud nuts.
After you have ridden the bike some, and have a few
heat-cool cycles, you can
re-torque the 10 mm bolts.
If you find any leaks at any given bolts, you can
remove the bolt and apply some common gasket
NON-permanent sealant at the BOLT threads and under
the bolt (and washer) head. Sparingly is the word on
use of sealants.
"
|
If you are replacing the pan gasket due to leaks,
first be sure that the leaks were from the pan mating
surfaces. I have seen pushrod seals leaks, leaks from the
oil sender switch, leaks from the high pressure galley, neutral
switch etc., all appear to be pan leaks.
You will need a brand-new pan gasket. The early cork gaskets are no longer available and tended to leak anyway. The presently available gaskets are a fiber material, and are much better. They have a side with writing on it, that is coated with a heat-activated glue. That side is UPwards. NOTE: Gaskets have apparently been seen that do not conform to this....so just install the gasket in the correct fitment direction.
How to go
about replacing the pan gasket, basics:
Tricks/hints: Using a small
10 mm box end wrench or a SMALL square drive wrench with a 10 mm
socket, try tightening the 14 pan bolts, but not over 75 INCH-ounces.
If any of the bolts have bad threads, note which ones, mark the
case, so you can fix them after the pan is off.
(You don't want to replace the pan gasket and find you have bad
threads at any of the 14 threaded holes)
Bad threads are best fixed by installing Helicoils. You
will want the M6 x 10 Helicoil kit.
You will need a 1/4"
drill bit, unless your kit comes with the drill bit.
At the next oil change, drain the hot oil.
Put a large and soft towel or other item on the floor, as
the pan MAY fly off the engine. The pan may have been put on with
a sealant, which is WRONG!.. thus, the pan may be difficult
to remove. Occasionally even a pan that does not have
sealant applied will prove mildly difficult to remove.
HEAT a corner area of the pan if not already hot from riding. Check that
every pan bolt is
removed! There are 14. Use a block of wood and a substantial
hammer and give the well-placed piece of wood a substantial whack
from the hammer. Do NOT bust fins,
ETC. DO NOT be stupid and allow the pan
to fly across the area and be damaged. I usually have an
assistant to grab the pan so it cannot fly.
With the pan removed, VERY thoroughly clean
everything. It is critical that
you do not
nick the pan and engine mounting surfaces. Any projected
nicks you find should be dressed flat. Rarely you may find
a nick that needs filling, you can use one of the metal epoxies
for that, then after curing, make it dead-flat. To
remove the old gasket, if need-be, use a sharp blade on a
very flat angle (nearly flat to the surface) to remove any old
sealant or other substance found.
Use a strong
commercial gasket remover, if you wish. The crankcase
surface absolutely must not have old gasket material and
no nicks
that have metal proud of the surface. Clean the area very
well! Final cleaning of the crankcase surface should be by
a good solvent that does not leave residue. I am
particularly fond of acetone for this.
Look upwards with a strong light and SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY inspect the oil pickup, etc. Be sure it looks OK and the bolts tight. This is a VERY good time to inspect that pickup, tube, casting area, for CRACKS!....some have been seen on extended pickup models. If you wish, remove the metal screen and clean it. If the two bolts for the pickup are even slightly loose, remove, clean with solvent, use new gasket(s) and apply Loctite BLUE to the threads before tightening (evenly!). If you absolutely INSIST on reusing the gaskets, and they look OK...that is, not torn, you can install them with a FAINT, but thorough, coating of NON-hardening Permatex form-a-gasket (type #2). It is preferable to install new gaskets, no goop. The reason to install fresh gasket(s) is that the gasket will not go back onto the assembly in EXACTLY the same position, and you might even have it reversed or upside down, as they fit any which way. That means that the raised area and non-raised areas no longer match-up, and you can get AIR sucking-in at that point. Thus, using an old gasket is a BAD idea, unless it is mandatory in some field situation.
Check the pan for ACTUAL flatness. Use #1 eyeball
with the pan on a piece of glass or a surface plate, and a strong
light...or a feeler gauge or both.
If necessary, place the pan on a flat piece of glass with a large
piece of sandpaper, perhaps grit 320. Do careful
figure eights, with evenly spread hand pressure. If you are good at it, use a long flat
mill file carefully covering adjacent and cross-surfaces.... otherwise do the eights. Do just
enough to be sure the pan is flat, smooth, and NO dinged edges
that have protruding bits, etc. DO NOT round the pan edges,
flatten unevenly, etc. It is NOT necessary to
try to flatten the pan to remove every irregularity, but you want
it flat.
Check the threaded holes in the engine case....any been drilled
through into the oil area and Helicoiled...or? Is the
bottom engine area FLAT?.....not
been dinged by someone?...looks good around the
threaded holes?
Are the Helicoils (or?) BELOW the
surface...they had better be! Are the internal
Helicoil tangs, used when installing the Helicoil, removed?
They should be!
I have found it necessary sometimes to use a gasket sealant on
the pan BOLTS threads and under the heads (and I ALWAYS use waverly
locking
washers). My particular favorite is the old tried and true
Permatex Form-a-Gasket #2...(do NOT USE #1, it is much too hard
and permanent when it dries). ANY decent sealant will be
OK.
DO
NOT
use any sealant on the gasket
surfaces! The gasket writing should be UPwards!...there
is a heat activated glue on that surface!..that is, if the pan
gasket was made properly (some are reportedly not).
I do NOT use silicone gaskets. However, to be truthful,
many have used them successfully.
Hold the pan and gasket up to the engine FLATLY, and with fingers, get the 14 bolts installed. NOW...tighten the pan 10 mm bolts (with waverly washers) very carefully, in a cross fashion...bit by bit....I do this with a small 10 mm box wrench or 3/8 drive socket and short ('stubby') handle ratchet. I do it by FEEL, and I guess I do it to around 6 foot pounds...but I have never measured it. DO NOT go for full torque right off the bat. Do the tightening in STAGES, in cross-pattern. Do one amount of tightening, then when all 14 bolts are at that tightness, increase the torque on one bolt, and start the cross-pattern tightening again. Continue until final tightness is reached.
Do not use torques as high as 8 or 9 footpounds!....that is TOO HIGH!!!
Common torque wrenches with maximum's of 75 or 100 footpounds are NOT ACCURATE for the pan bolts. 72 inch-pounds
is fine, if you have an inch-pound torque-wrench.
Install a FRESH drain plug crush washer (or the later solid aluminum washer BMW now sells).
DO
NOT FORGET TO INSTALL OIL!!!...yes, folks HAVE done that!
After a few heat-cool riding cycles, touch up the torque on the
bolts again; again a cross-pattern....slightly.....same torque level.
HINT! Use a flashlight, or a piece of stiff solid wire, and check the pan bolt holes adjacent to the oil filter area. You may find that they could leak oil. I use a NON-hardening sealant goop on THOSE bolts. I am fond of Permatex NON-hardening version of Form-A-Gasket.
Pan and
pickup
differences (and some other stuff):
The oil pans were not the same
over the years, and some aftermarket ones were also available,
supposedly to improve cooling, which they do not
really hardly do. Early pans were flat. In 1976
the pan was lowered a bit, that is, it was a bit deeper, which
gave more room for crankcase pressure, and reduced oil
consumption from oil mist through the breather due to that extra air space. The breather was also modified,
it was still the round disc at that time,
but added in 1978 was a tiny hole in the bottom of the oil
condensation chamber in front of the breather....to drain
oil back into the engine. That teeny hole MUST be clean and
clear. When the pan was lowered half an inch or so in
1976, BMW now had to and did add a spacer in the oil strainer
pickup tube, at the 2 bolts. Early spacers were phenolic,
then later were aluminum. Two small gaskets are used when a
spacer is used. I prefer to use a tiny evenly spread amount of sealant like Form-A-Gasket
non-hardening #2 on the paper gaskets, using my
fingertip...remember, THINLY......and Loctite BLUE
on the threads of the bolts in all instances. In
1981, BMW
made the pan a fair amount deeper, adding more oil capacity, and a slosh
baffle in the pan construction, so the engine would not momentarily run out of oil on
very hard braking. Also in 1981, the
pickup became a cast aluminum item, no longer was a sheet metal
steel pressing.
Early BMW's had a three-part oil pickup assembly.
That is, there was an added phenolic (plastic stuff) or metal spacer used, with a
paper gasket on each side of it. The metal part is
better. The surfaces need to be flat and nick-free, and the
two bolts need to be evenly tightened back and forth, and I use
blue Loctite on them, some folks have used red Loctite. You
can't use the one piece cast part on the early pans; that part is
used with the 1981+ pans. The one-piece casting versions
eliminated the need for the spacer and that extra gasket.
There were 3 types of oil pickup assembly bolts used, all M6, but of various
lengths depending on the bike's oil pickup items. There may
have been 4 types, not sure, I seem to remember one of the bolts
had two head styles....one had more taper under the head.
My memory might be faulty in this matter. This is hardly
anything critical...the bolt must simply be long enough to fit
the items properly.
SEE: http://www.largiader.com/tech/oilpan/
NOTE: Mystic, Roadster, G/S, and GS models use a shallower pan. The pans have threaded holes for mounting a bash plate. These shallow pans are the replacement for the original NLA /5 pans. The GS pans were slightly deeper from 1991; and GS pans have a rear wall drain.
NOTE! 1970-1975 center-stands
do not work with deep oil pans, unless you modify the
center-stand (or, change the stand).
There is a confusion about substituting later oil pans for
earlier ones; even more confusion with what dipstick to use.
I am NOT in favor of NON-BMW aftermarket 'oil cooling' extension
items, that give a larger oil capacity and have tubes in them
running for and aft. Rare, but they have been known
to give serious problems.
There is more information
on variations of pans, pickups. Anton Largiader has a
considerable amount of information with photos of pans and
dipsticks. He also covers some aftermarket pans at the end
of his article.
http://www.largiader.com/tech/oilpan/
Dipsticks:
BMW has used two 'styles' of dipsticks on the
airheads. The early style was silvery, metal top, and used
a metal crush-ring type of gasket (which was not tightened so
tight as to really crush). The later style has a black top,
which stays cooler to the touch, and uses a rubber O-ring in a
groove in the top handle. The only good way to
identify a dipstick is by the top; AND, by the measured distance from
the bottom flat area of the top part, to the minimum and
maximum marks...and the tip.
HINT!...When removing or replacing the dipstick, AVOID bending the left carburetor throttle cable!
YEAR and
model
__to tip_
to min. mark
to max. mark
1975 R60/6,
R90/6
11-5/16"
11-3/16"
10-5/16"
1979 R100RT, 1982
R100RS
10-15/16"
10-3/4"
9-3/4"
1983, 1984
R100RT
11-3/8"
11-1/4"
10-3/8"
I did the 1983, 1984 R100RT myself, have not personally confirmed
the others.
These were the only ones measured so far. Note that
these measurements apply only to stock dipsticks.
Note: just because there is information here on measuring
dipsticks, does not mean, necessarily, that you have to replace
yours, if, for example, you install a later oil
pan. Simply note the actual level, when
you do an oil change.
What is interesting, is that the 1982 R100RS and the 1983-4 bikes
really should be identical. I have no explanation, yet.
I've not yet removed pans and checked pickup heights and oil
level heights with standard oil quantities.
Following is courtesy of information from John Falconer, and
taken from a posting on the Airheads LIST on 09/06/2003 (and
corrected from mm to cm):
See also:
http://www.largiader.com/tech/oilpan/
All measurements are in cm,
from the sealing lip to the indicated mark.
1) Dipstick from an early /5 (metal cap, no markings)
: 25.7 cm to full, 28.3 cm to low
2) Dipstick from an early '80s R65 (plastic cap with
molded in "A") : 27.2 cm to full, 29.3 cm to low
3) Dipstick from a '92 R100GS (plastic cap with molded in
"C") : 26.6 cm to full, 28.4 cm to low
Note that Anton Largiader's site measures
the dipstick from the underside of the threaded area
Engine
oil quantities:
There is sometimes confusion about how much oil an engine takes
during an oil change. Your owner's booklet has the
figures. Here are some guidelines, for stock oil
pans:
Without oil coolers, up to 1980: 2.25 liters
With oil coolers to 1980: 2.50 liters
From 1981 without cooler: 2.50 liters
From 1981 with cooler: 2.75 liters
R80GS to 1990: 2.25 liters
GS from 1991: 2.50 liters
To fill the engine from the MIN to the MAX will take nearly a
full liter....a quart U.S., except that after 1980 it was a bit
less...about .85 Liter or .9 quart, approximately.
Revisions:
02/26/2005: minor
08/13/2006: emphasis on the glue and writing upwards
11/21/2007: WAS article 79. Minor changes in emphasis
also.
01/15/2008: Move page position on Tech Index Page
during re-organization of site; edit the article for clarity
during this process;
add Pan Differences from the Engine Internals article.
MAJOR changes to this article.
07/07/2008: Add Anton's website link to pickups heading.
01/22/2010: cleanup, clarify some details.
03/19/2010: edit for clarity; include the LIST stuff.
02/24/2011: Changed to 50C
03/23/2011: Remove oil pan information from 50B, move here;
revise this article for more clarity and hyperlinks.
04/05/2011: minor clarifications
10/18/2011: Another "C" anomalie?...make note
10/18/2011: Correct the discrepancies on the dipstick
measurements, noting WHERE they are measured from
© Copyright, 2011, R. Fleischer